How do I get my 2 night owl kids to sleep before 10 school nights; and 11 summer nights? Nothing seems to work

Question: Both kids 12 and 14 (boy and girl) are otherwise "normal"; but like my mother and me, seem to crave or need a bedtime about 11 pm, or even 11:30. My teen girl is getting a bit worse (as I'd expect with a teen). You fight to turn off the tv; get them in their rooms; and they still stay up playing; reading; talking to each other (through the door); going to the bathroom; sneaking a snack, etc. I don't totally buy: a.) that it's a "disorder" of delayed somnolence or other nonsense, in all kids b.) or that being stricter will help. A sleep researcher I met told me probably not much, or nothing will change the kids!!! You can lead them to bed but you can't make them sleep (until 11 or 11:30 pm). The trouble is: if they're up, I'm up: hearing their footsteps; hearing them try to turn the tv on; fighting with them to get back into bed; getting them out of the refrigerator, etc. What may work? Is a sleep study a good idea? What's the best place in the Brooklyn, NYC area, if I choose that route

Answers:
Are they genuinely "craving" that bedtime or is it that's what there mom does and they are pushing the limit to see how soon they can be treated as your equal?

If they insist on calling you out and snubbing your go-to-bed orders, then by all means, make them pay the consequenses of a late night life.
a) allowing them to sleep in will only enable their rebellion; wake them up early. They aren't respecting your sleep, why should you respect theirs? b) they need to know to consider other peoples sleep with their noise. Ask a policeofficer or neighbor to come by and tell them he has gotten noise complaints and have him lecture them on responsibility

Other Answers:
i'd say make them get up at 5 or 6 a.m. so they get tired earlier

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yeah, make em get up early! I'm 21 and I didn't start staying up until all hours of the morning until I was in college. I was so damn tired in HS... I was asleep by 10 pm.

Give them more to do and wake them up early. Don't let them take naps!

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